Transcript: Why Did I Decide to Launch A Physical Product?

JACQUELINE  [0:03]  

Hi. I'm your host, Jacqueline Kincer and in today's episode I'm going to be sharing something I haven't shared a whole lot before, but it's going to be me telling you why I decided to launch and create a physical product. So if you don't know, I have one currently on the market. And that is our advanced lactation formula. It is an herbal supplement blend for increasing and supporting milk supplied. And then I've got another one that's going to come out in the next month or two, which is called the lactation flow formula. And that is for preventing and treating clogged ducts and mastitis. So I can speak to a lot of the first one. But some of the reasons why I've created these two products are similar. 

 

So I'll be talking about what makes my product different or unique. Why is my brand different? Why did I choose the ingredients I chose? How did I go about this process? I know a lot of people are really curious. And I will say owning a company that creates a physical product is not for everybody. There's been some trials and tribulations, and I'll also be sharing those with you on the episode. So before I get into it, I just wanted to mention something really quick is that I post a ton of content over on our Instagram account at holistic lactation. And I would love for you to follow us there. If you are not already, it's been something that has been just a little passion project of mine. 

 

And we've grown our following to a pretty decent amount now. And it's always sort of sad but also heartwarming when I hear moms say that the content that I post there is more helpful than the lactation consultants they worked with Ouch, you know, definitely, the profession of lactation consultants is a mixed bag. And there are many people in the profession that could be doing a lot better, and they're not. And that's always disappointing. And so, I never want someone to think that we're all created equal. And that's not to say I'm so much better than anybody else or anything like that. But it's just like any profession, right? It's just like, you know, there are good doctors, and there are bad doctors, there are good plumbers, and there are bad plumbers, there's good car mechanics, and there are bad ones. And it just is the way it is. 

 

But for some reason, I feel like our profession gets this special treatment. And people think, well, anyone who's a lactation consultant should be gate great at their job. That's a bit like saying everyone who is a mental health therapist should be great at their job. They're not always, or they're just early on. And they don't have that clinical experience. So they might have the training, but they haven't applied what they've learned yet. And so, I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But if you are struggling with breastfeeding, it's a great place to come follow and hang out and maybe learn something new. So just wanted to do a little bit of a shameless plug for our Instagram because I think that it's fun. And we put a lot of energy and effort into creating some incredible content for you there. So let's talk about why I decided to launch this product. 

 

You know, it's funny because I've worked with so many clients over the years, I've had a couple of different office spaces, I've collaborated with other providers, and they've been doing virtual consults. And so, really, up until the last year, I would say I was primarily just focused on that client-facing work. I wasn't doing anything else in the business to drive revenue. And it was only, you know, really kind of a confluence of circumstances that sort of made things shift for me. One was that you know, I can only do so much myself for so long, and that just wasn't sustainable. 

 

So that's why we have some other incredible lactation consultants on the team because, oh my goodness, you know when someone is struggling with breastfeeding, they just do not want to wait, you know, a week to get help or two weeks. That's just not right. And I could not just keep sacrificing my time, time with my family, never taking lunch breaks, that sort of thing. Just because I wanted to help people. I knew they needed help, and their needs seem so much greater than mine. But I was ignoring so many of my own needs in my personal life that it became unhealthy. 

 

So anyway, if you've ever worked with anyone on my team, you know how amazing they are. And I'm so so grateful to have them because they're like this extension of me, but they also bring this fresh perspective. to the table that is just, you know, by having a different mind, someone who has seen different things who lives in a different geographical area, they bring so much to the table. So anyway, through my years of working with parents and working with low milk supply, which is so common to work with as a lactation consultant, it's not every client, but I would say, you know, even if someone doesn't have low milk supply, they're concerned about, are they making enough? 

 

Are they going to continue to make enough and all of those things, and it took me a long time through reading books on individual herbs, from studying lactation to looking at studies to working and asking with colleagues attending conferences, I mean, you name it anywhere that I could have found information on anything that could do a lot for lactation, I was all about it. I can't even believe how many books I've bought on, you know, individual plants and things and just downloaded studies, chapters from old books, and anything about botanical medicine, and, and vitamins and, you know, minerals, all that kind of stuff, right? So I won't bore you with the details. 

 

But I learned a lot. And you learn about what's effective and what's not. And you learn from other cultures about what they're doing, what are their traditions, and what's typically worked for them. And I will say, there's a lot to be said for some of these cultural traditions. Some of them are not so good, but some of them are great, and when you know, like these nourishing, postpartum diets that let's say, like Australian aborigines may have, and you learned that there are some common foods and those diets that happen to be very lactogenic. So means supportive of lactation and they recommend that, you know, a new mother eats and consumes these foods right after birth, then there's a reason why right? 

 

So there is some wisdom there that comes into play as well. And ultimately, through this combination of learning and with all of my patients, I benefit from knowing their complete medical history. So you know, from childhood until now, their pregnancy history, their birth history, you know, their lactation history up until the time they work together. And I know their diets, and I know their lifestyle, and I know their personal beliefs. And I know you know so much about them, which is related to breastfeeding and lactation. And so when I make a clinical recommendation to somebody, it's very much rooted in their current health circumstances and how they got to where they are today. 

 

And that informs my decision about I recommend to them. And so it's always very interesting for me when people reach out and say, Hey, I just need some tips on X y&z, And you know, I would love to just give you a tip. But I've got to know about you. There is somehow this idea that I think a lot of moms have that there's some sort of one size fits all like guide or something like there's the perfect breastfeeding position, or there's the perfect food or the perfect bottle or the perfect pumper, there's not because everyone is different. And breastfeeding is so dynamic, there are so many nuances to it just because you have bras and just because you make milk does not mean that you need the same things as another mother who's doing the same. And your baby is completely different from her baby. 

 

So whenever somebody says, Hey, do you have some tips on, you know, X, Y, and Z? And I'm like, Yes, but I don't have tips for you. Because I don't know you. And I don't know anything about you, and how you got here and all of that, we need all of that information, which doesn't take a long time to collect because we've got intake forms, and then we review those, you know, maybe five minutes at the beginning of the appointment. And so we can dial it in and then go from there and see what's working and what's not. So anyway, that's a little bit more about kind of how appointments work, but through that experience, and then I would make recommendations to moms, and I would say, Well, based on everything you're saying, you know, I think you should try this herb for milk supply. 

 

And then, because I had them as a patient, I would keep in close contact with them. So I would know, day by day, that sometimes they contact me multiple times a day and give me updates on things. And I would have them log, you know, how much milk are you pumping or you know, your baby's diaper output or other signs of your baby getting enough and weight checks and all of that. And I would find sometimes one herb did the trick, but usually, a combination of herbs did the trick. And the biggest struggle I had is once I found out, you know, which herbs work best for which people, and there were ones that just at a baseline level pretty much worked well for most people unless they had some odd medical issue going on. And those herbs would be, you know, more than one herb so I'd have like five herbs that I was telling people to take, and you know how it is for moms, right especially a new mom, she's got a newborn or she's sleep-deprived or she's balancing all these things, especially with low supply right they're probably nursing Seeing and, and pumping and doing all these things, and it's a lot. 

 

I would check in with them and be like, so you haven't seen an increase like, you know, tell me, are you taking this? Are you taking that? And then they would realize, Oh, I forgot to take the other thing, or I never bought the other thing, or it's too hard to find, or they'd be taking the wrong dose. And I'm like, Well, how much Moringa Are you taking, and they would be like, 1000 milligrams. And I'm like, Yeah, that's not what I told you to take, though. And so not only verbally did I give them the instructions, but written and I get it like, I can only do so much right. But at the same time, like, you're probably not pulling up those notes, or you read it quickly, or you just took what it said on the bottle, you didn't listen to my instructions, which were different than the dosing on the bottle or something like that. 

 

It's not to blame anybody, I just very quickly realized it is so confusing for moms to have to try to source different herbs, take a bunch of different pills, take the right amount, and all of that. And so a lot of the times why they wouldn't see results is because that difficulty of follow-through, especially for someone who may be, you know, lived in a more rural area and was depending on finding ingredients online and getting them shipped very difficult sometimes to find everything they needed. 

 

Not to mention that if you're buying one bottle of something, that's $20, and then another bottle of something at $30. And I'm asking you to buy maybe three or four of these things, and I would just try to minimize it, like, what's the least amount of stuff that I have to recommend to this parent to get the most amount of results? And so that would add up in cost quite a bit. And we'd have to balance that with, like, how do you get ongoing care from a lactation consultant? But how do you also, you know, incorporate the things that you need to make breastfeeding successful? And just buying products typically isn't the fix, right?

 

You've got to know how to use those products appropriately, how often to use them when you can stop using them, all of those things. So anyway, it was kind of a mess, sometimes, you know, but I was able to see from that patient feedback and tracking and follow up what worked and what didn't. And what was doable. And what wasn't. I also learned about where do moms shop? Where do they buy things, I cannot tell you how many times someone would be in my office or I'd be at their home doing a home visit, even online doing telehealth, and they would just pull up their phone and start ordering on Amazon, or if their partner was with them, their partner would get on the phone and say, you know, what's the name of this product? And then show me the listing? And you know, is this the one? Yes, that's the one. 

 

Or sometimes it would be like a pickup order at Target or what have you. So I learned a lot about their buying behavior. I also learned a lot about the products they were taking before they came to me. So that's a question on the intake form, what supplements or medications are you taking? And so they would say, you know, I'm taking x, y, and z. And you know, of course, my first question is, well, have you noticed a difference? Since you've taken that? 

 

No, not, a lot of the time, I would know that you know, the things that people were taking, that they were trying weren't effective now and again, I'd have someone taking a really good product, or they seem to know a lot about herbs. And so they would have it pretty dialed in, and they'd be taking that. And I would be like, yep, that makes sense, exactly what you need. Because based on everything I've learned about you, these would be beneficial things for you to take. And I cannot tell you how many times, you know, when clients would take these herbs that I recommended, and they would tell me, you know, oh my gosh, you know, I have all these bottles on my bathroom counter. And it's hard to keep it all straight, I had to write it down on a sticky note or, you know, they'd have some sort of system, right. 

 

They would say you should just make your supplements because I've tried everything else in the market. And those things do not work. And I'd be like, Yeah, you know, we knew one day, right. And I heard it enough times that I started to think, you know, is that a possibility? Like, could I do that? And I had a lot of limiting beliefs along the way, thinking that you know what, I'm a lactation consultant, I see patients, that's what I do. I don't take supplements. And so the first idea that sort of occurred to me was like, Could I be a person who consulted with a supplement company, and I would tell them what to make. 

 

It would be like a product that I endorsed or, or something, you know, because to me, it was just important that moms got what they needed, and that they were so frustrated having spent, you know, so much money on trying all these different things and trialing for you know, however many days and meanwhile, if you're trialing something for like two weeks, let's say two weeks is a long time to go without increasing your milk supply. 

 

You could lose a lot of ground during that time, you could see that it's harder to increase your milk supply. With every week that goes by that, it's not addressed. And what was sad for me is that a lot of the marketing out there would promise something that they really couldn't deliver. And I think moms put a lot of false hope and products sometimes. So when I finally came around to the idea of, you know, maybe this is something I could do, maybe I could source these ingredients, and I could make up product that works effectively for mums based on, you know what I've learned my clinical experience, all of these years of research that I've done, I don't remember the complete beginning of how I started to look into this. But I had a friend who had started a supplement line of his own. And he said, Yeah, you know, it's doable. And I was like, Well, how, you know, you run a completely different company, his company was an is like a credit card processing company for small businesses. So basically, his team of people would cold-call local businesses, offer competitive card processing rates, and get you set up as an account. And in, you know, process your customer's credit card transactions for you. 

 

And so for him to do a supplement company was kind of funny, but he was, you know, very into personal growth and all of these things, and very into health. So I think it became sort of a passion project of his to say, hey, I want to make some high-quality supplements on the market, because these are the things that I enjoy taking in my personal life. So we got to talking, and I kind of floated this idea around to some other people I knew in business space, and just through my network and whatnot. And I kept hearing that, you know, this would be something doable. So I went back to this original friend of mine and said, you know, hey, I've kind of been starting to look at manufacturers and whatnot. And I want the herbs to be organic, and high quality is important to me. And you know, this is another language that I don't understand. And he told me that he went and toured personally himself to 16 different facilities in the US that were manufacturers for supplements after he had narrowed down his initial list. 

 

And he ended up choosing one that makes a lot of popular products that you'll know on the market. I can't name names, unfortunately. But these were well-known brands. And I was pretty impressed, actually. And so he said, Let me connect you with my guy over there. And sure enough, got connected with the guy and learned a lot about the company, learned about the ingredients they had available, and the forms that they could make things in. So it's not just capsules, you can do powders, you can do gummies, you can do, you know, a lot of different tinctures, you know, a lot of different formats for things. 

 

And so, I signed an NDA with him. So that way, they're not disclosing my, you know, confidential stuff is it's in development. And we got started in the process. And I have to say, I'm still with that manufacturer today. What I love about them is they're based in the US, they're headquartered in California, and they have facilities all around the US, where they, you know, manufacture their products and things. And they understand the market. And they understand people that prioritize their health, that care very much about clean ingredients, that they manufacture high-quality things. And that's important to them. And so I went ahead and went forth with going through with my first order. 

 

And I have to say, it was really scary because I had never spent that kind of money. In my business, it was a lot, like a lot, it was pretty scary because you're not going to see that money come back to you anytime soon like it's out, it's out there, and you have to wait for your puppy manufactured, and then you have to wait for enough of it to sell for you to even you know, get back with you invested. So it's a lot to carry. 

 

And so I had to work with a label designer, and I had to work with the formulator there to get the dosage of ingredients that I wanted to fit into the capsules to fit into the bottle to be well below any sort of federal or state of California thresholds for Prop 65, or heavy metals or anything like that. And if you don't know, this, this is something interesting that I learned throughout this process is that you know, anything that's grown in soil will have heavy metals in it, it will have, you know, some sort of contaminants, right, you know, fungus or what, what have you various things, every single thing that is grown in soil will have that there is just no way around it. That's just the way it is. The cool part is, though that through the process of the plant uptaking those things and whatnot, is that most of these things aren't readily absorbable through your digestive system. So you're not injecting them into your bloodstream, you're putting them through the stomach, and things are breaking down. 

 

And we have our liver and our kidneys and other organs in our bodies to detox and process these things out. And so the reason why everything used to low be below a certain limit is so that we know those are safe levels of exposure. And so you know whether or not you're eating a banana or strawberry webinar, it's organic, whether or not you grow your food at home and make your compost. There are still heavy metals and things in the soil that you ideally wouldn't want to eat, but we all eat them every day. We all consume these things. And so what I made sure of was that my product limit everything is tested by a third party, and it's very like a verified third party. It's not my manufac You're doing the testing, they send it off on my behalf, and it's well below any of those limits. 

 

Because when it comes to pregnancy and breastfeeding, you know, we want to make sure everything is super duper safe, anything that could be introduced to your breast milk or your baby, it's got to be super-duper safe. So it's funny because I see a lot of claims out there, you know that the wellness community, so to speak, has put outputting a lot of fear into people. And, oh, you need to detox and detox heavy metals, and you should never consume them. And I'm like, Yeah, but you would never be eating, like, unless you grew. Hydropower, hydroponic everything, you could not avoid ingesting heavy metals or mycotoxins or various other things, and pesticides. 

 

So, you know, just because something's organic doesn't mean it doesn't have pesticides, by the way. So I learned a lot and dispelled many myths in terms of diet and health and all of that. So it was reassuring for me to learn about that in a broader context. Because, again, quality was the most important thing to me. So anyways, got the whole, you know, product going, got the label design, picked out the bottles, all of that, I got set up on my website for selling. 

 

And then right away, I knew I wanted to sell on Amazon because back to what I said a few moments ago, parents, I would recommend something, and they would be on Amazon like ordering it right then in there. And so I'm like, well, obviously, that makes sense, right. And so my friend that had originally connected me with the manufacturer, he had done Amazon himself. And so he kind of helped me set it up and go from there. So long story short, I finally launched the product, I guess it was last year, at the end of January or beginning of February, somewhere in that timeframe. At first, you know, people bought it. 

 

And I was excited about how many people were purchasing it. That was cool. A lot of people that had just known me and followed me for a long time, a lot of former patients, or they would tell their friends, which was cool. And immediately, the testimonials came flooding in, and the reviews and people were like, this is incredible. I'm making so much more milk in just a matter of days and sharing their results, which was cool. Because I didn't explicitly ask for it, nor did I expect that kind of feedback so quickly. So I was just thinking, you know what needs to get out there in the world. And then we'll see what happens. 

 

And with Amazon, it's not like I can talk to customers either. So all of a sudden, you know, I check every morning, I was so excited to see and people would be leaving, you know, reviews. And I was like, wow, this is so cool. Because now I'm impacting a group of people that are not my patients, and I'm getting to hear their stories. And I'm getting to see their results. And I was overjoyed, honestly, and I definitely had a bit of impostor syndrome as well. Because even though I felt like I really dialed in the ingredients and the dosage, and all of that I still felt like oh my goodness, is this going to work? Are people going to like this? Is it going to do all the things that I say it's going to, and obviously, it's not going to work for everybody. 

 

And I'll talk about that in just a moment as well. But to get that kind of feedback, so early on that was so genuine that was so unsolicited from people who had never worked with me. And then the cool thing about Amazon was, I'm reaching people that have no idea that I have an Instagram account or a podcast or any of that. They're just on their shopping for something for their milk supply or lactation and they find it and they buy it. And then to impact those people as well. I mean, it's another level. So anyway, I mean, there are people that have some really sad sob stories, like basically, they're like, I make one to two ounces a day, you know, I was basically just giving up. And then I tried this. And now I'm up to, you know, 16 ounces a day and on my way to a full milk supply. And those kinds of stories are people who, you know, got their menstrual cycle back and they had that menstrual cycle dip, and then they took the supplement and they've been able to maintain. And even through future menstrual cycles, they never had the dip again, or people who got a massive supply dip after having COVID, which is so common, and they would take it to get their supply back or just a mom who's like I've tried everything. I've tried all of these other brands, very well known brands, and nothing worked for me. 

 

Finally, I tried this product as a last resort. And it's the only thing that worked, which was exactly the kind of results I was seeing with my clients. Anyway, it's been quite a journey. And that product has been so wildly successful and helped so many families and people that just you know, like swear by it and buy it over and over again and I just couldn't be happier for them because you know, that was my intention, right was to really give people something that wasn't out there yet. None of these other lactation supplements on the market are created by an ibclc not a single one. And it's always funny to me, like where did you decide to Get these ingredients from. 

 

There's a couple of brands out there that are created by moms. But moms are not experts in clinical lactation. They are not scientifically trained to read studies to interpret them to look at data, they have had no clinical experience, they've had no sort of testing their proving grounds for their products, they have an idea and they create something. And maybe it's helpful to some people. But for the most part, a lot of these things are not or you know, they may just be minimally helpful. And that's all somebody needed. And that's great. But I wanted to create a product for people who are really struggling to make milk and really wants to make more and they're already doing all the right things. 

 

They're pumping, they're doing this in that they've got the right flange size, you know, they they're Googling everything, they've worked with an IBCLC. And just nothing has helped. And this is it. That's really what I designed my product for. And I don't have control over who buys it. So that's always interesting. Like when you work with patients, you have some degree of control and say, and the things that they do not like, you know, I tell them what to do. And I expect them to follow my instructions to a tee. I don't they're individuals, and they have their own agency. But it's a direct clinical recommendation, right. 

 

So I can very clearly state you know, yes, that will help you know, that will not other things, you know, you can try it and see. So with this product selling on Amazon walmart.com. And my own website, I don't get to control who buys it. And it's funny to me whenever well, I shouldn't say funny, it's like disappointing to me, because I understand the hope that people have when they purchase it right. And there are many people out there who don't understand what normal lactation looks like. 

 

They have some misconceptions about their own milk supplies and perceived low milk supply is a very real problem. And a great example of this would be a baby who is going to daycare, and is exclusively breast milk fed. And because they are being inappropriately bottle fed and overfed, they are now taking six or seven, or maybe even eight ounces of milk at a time. And this poor mom is pumping her brains out. And she can't keep up with that. Because that's not normal. No breast milk fed baby should ever be taking that much at once, really max of five ounces. And that's definitely not going to be for every feeding. 

 

Now. It's funny, whenever I post about this on Instagram, you know, somebody gets all up in arms, while my baby drinks seven ounces and still isn't full. Yeah, I get that. But that happens because your baby has been fed too quickly and overfed for a long period of time. And that's created the situation, if you suddenly tried to give your baby less than six hours less than seven ounces, they aren't going to be happy, they aren't going to feel satisfied because their stomach is stretched out. So normal amounts of milk are no longer going to make your child feel full. So I could get into that on a whole other episode. 

 

So these moms, will they have full supplies, they probably even have over supplies. And then they'll take my supplement and be like, it didn't work for me. I'm like, Well, yeah, because you're already making a full supply, I can't make your body make more milk than it has the capacity to make that's like me like, that would be like saying that we can like get your body to make more blood. Like no, like your body is always trying to maintain some sort of level of homeostasis, right, there is a maximum, and everybody's maximum is different. But if you already have a full supply, one, you don't need to take a supplement like mine, too. I mean, you could take it for like maintenance, if you felt like you were nutrient deficient, or you just, you know, wanted to take something you probably don't need the full dose. 

 

But you know, the other point there is, well, you don't have a low supply. So I wouldn't expect you to see any changes. And so unfortunately, we see that a lot as well. The other thing I'll say that I see, you know, somewhat frequently on the occasional rare negative review that comes through is you know, someone will say it did nothing for me only making, you know, half an ounce per pump or something. And it's like well, right, but there's so many things involved in milk production that I wouldn't pin all of your hopes on a on a supplement either. 

 

So you know, some people have low supply for medical reasons. And maybe a combination of herbs is not appropriate for you. Maybe you have an underlying health condition that will always prevent you from making enough milk. Or you know, maybe there's something else going on, maybe your pump sucks, maybe you're not pumping appropriately. Maybe you don't have the right size flange, maybe your baby has a tongue tie. I mean, there are so many things, maybe your diet is awful. Maybe you lost a lot of blood during birth. And that's why you're not making enough. So there's so many reasons why. 

 

And if you're not doing your due diligence before you go and buy a product and you're pinning all your hopes on that product, hoping to make a change in your health without knowing whether or not it's really going to help you without knowing whether or not it's appropriate. Unfortunately, you might be disappointed because there's a disclaimer on every supplement out there including mine, please consult with your healthcare provider. Now the tricky part is when it comes to breastfeeding and lactation, as most healthcare providers and pharmacists for sure, are really not informed in terms of what could make a difference for you in terms of milk production or lactation. So you're probably reliant on an IBCLC. Many IBCLCs are also not all knowledgeable on herbs, and they don't feel comfortable recommending specific herbs or dosages. So, unfortunately, a lot of moms are really left to figure this out themselves. So that's a problem I'm trying to solve over on my Instagram and with my podcasts, but I definitely would say, anytime I see those kind of, you know, experiences where people expressed that, you know, they have not gotten some sort of improvement. Unfortunately, I can't say that this product would ever work for everybody. I would never say that that's completely unethical. And it's just wrong. So I would never province promise that. 

 

But what I can say is, you know, you're welcome to try it, you're absolutely welcome to try it out and see if it works for you. The other thing that's always funny to me is like, you know, just kind of as an aside, right is is an example of an analogy, so to speak, you know, let's say I have like a raging headache, okay, and I go and take some ibuprofen, I follow the dosing instructions on the bottle, what have you, and my headache doesn't go away. 

 

But I don't go and do is blame the ibuprofen for being defective or ineffective, or what have you, immediately, my response to that is, well, it must be something else. Like that was not what I needed, I need something else, maybe I need to drink more water, maybe I need a stronger medication. And it's interesting to me to see sort of the perspective of certain customers that will say this product is defective, because it didn't work for me. And they often mark that on their returns, which is interesting. To me. It's the nature of doing business, especially e-commerce, but I would never open and consume a product and then return it unless something was actually wrong with it. Like unless I was like, the seal is broken, the product is broken. There's mold inside like, I just would not because that's why would I do that? I don't know, it's an interesting mentality that people have where they will just return things. In fact, you know, funny enough, I did get a returned. I've gotten several return products, right. But I used to have them shipped to my home, so that I could examine them and see like, what's going on? 

 

Why are people returning these and one bottle was returned. And when I opened it up, there were a bunch of capsules inside, but they were all different. So it wasn't my product that was inside the bottle. And I think this person who returned it thought maybe if I return a bottle that looks mostly full, then I'll get my money back. Newsflash, Amazon will give you your money back no matter what, like you don't need to con the system. And like it's just very, it's like an odd deceptive practice, because why. But people also think that they need to choose like a really strong reason to get their money back. 

 

Again, with Amazon, or pretty much any retailer these days, you don't need to do that you don't need to exaggerate that there's like a problem with the product. And unbeknownst to you, the consumer, every time you do that, when you make a return on Amazon, and you say item is defective, thinking that that's gonna help you get your money back, or you know, and keep in mind what defective really means right? Defective is not the same as ineffective. So something can be ineffective for you. But it doesn't mean that product in and of itself is defective. So please choose your words carefully. If you're listening to this episode, and you would like to return the supplements that you ordered off of Amazon, please do not choose item is defective. The reason why is because that hurts me as a seller. So that decreases my ranking because Amazon is like, whoa, what's going on? 

 

Why do we have someone who's shipping product to our warehouse that we're sending out on their behalf? And these customers are saying it's defective. They're looking at me going, where's your quality control? Well, my quality control is impeccable. But unfortunately, your customers are the ones who are mislabeling their experience with the product. And so anyway, just for future reference, if ever you return anything on Amazon, you do not need a big giant reason to do it to get your money back. 

 

Okay. And also, just be aware that a company like mine is a small business, and probably a lot of the companies you order from our small businesses. I am not some, you know, Chinese clothing seller who is selling you discount clothing, I am not some giant corporation where that kind of stuff doesn't impact my business. So just keep that in mind is all I'm gonna say I have learned a lot being on the receiving end of working with E-commerce customers, and you know, it's not for the faint of heart, that's for sure. People who don't have a face to a name can sometimes be brutal. It's very, very interesting. So anyway, just thought I would share that tidbit with you though. Like if you didn't realize that already. It's very easy to return things to Amazon, unfortunately, you know, consumable things They also accept as returns which you know, is just kind of a bummer for me because I can't resell that product, right. And so you essentially got free product. And that's fine. But it does definitely impact my bottom line more than let's say a larger company. 

 

But thankfully, I don't get a ton of returns. Because for the majority of people that buy it, it works. They love it, and they're super happy with it. So the ones that I do get really not much sweat off my back. But I just thought I would share that little insight for you, in case you were wondering, do I have to really choose like a big reason to return something even like if you go to target, and let's say you're returning something that doesn't fit you, but you think that you won't get your money back unless you say like, there's something wrong with the item, just say it doesn't fit you, you will get your money back, you actually don't need a reason half the time that customer service at Target, they don't even ask you why you're returning it. So when you say that it's defective, or something is wrong with it, they can't put that item back out on the store shelves and resell it, they actually have to discard it and Target stores by supply from suppliers. 

 

So it's not like you're hurting the supplier who created it, you're actually hurting the Target store. And in the long run, that type of consumer behavior is what actually raises prices, because Target has to account for a certain return rate on things and a certain rate of destroying property that they've bought, or that they've manufactured. And so if you're doing that very frequently, whether it's Costco or Nordstrom, I know they're like infamous for their return policies. But again, any retailer Walmart, what have you, if you like shopping somewhere where you get a good price on things, just keep that in mind whenever you make a return is obviously if something is truly broken and defective, let that you know, retailer know, but if it's not just be honest about your reasons for returning it, and they will accept your return and you'll get your money back anyway. So just a little consumer tip for you. 

 

But if you didn't know what's in the advanced lactation formula, you know, I'll just kind of share this quickly with you. But you're welcome to just check it out on the website or, you know, look it up on Amazon. It's funny, a lot of people, I wouldn't say a lot but like a fair amount of people have reached out to me like, is it safe to buy this on Amazon? Yes, it is because I ship it to Amazon. And so it's Fulfilled by Amazon. If you have Amazon Prime, you get free two day shipping, depending on where you live, and what warehouses it's located in, you know, sometimes you can get same day or overnight shipping, which is pretty cool. So no, definitely, at least you know, by the one that is sold and fulfilled by Amazon, I have not had anyone on there trying to counterfeit my product as of yet. So hopefully that does not happen. But yes, it's totally safe on there to purchase on Amazon, or again walmart.com. I actually have an opportunity coming up here at the end of the month where I'm pitching to Walmart stores.

So I have a meeting with a buyer at Walmart about getting my product into their physical stores. I think that would be incredible. So if you're listening to this, and you're like that would be so convenient for me, I would love to get their share what that would do for you. Like if you would be so excited to have this product on shelves at Walmart. I would love to hear from you. Because any anything I can take to that buyer and say hey, this is what consumers want. These moms are buying their groceries there and they would love to be able to pick up a bottle of this while they're there. They would love to not have to wait for shipping, things like that. So if that would be important to you or you'd find value in that let me know send me a DM on Instagram. You can always send an email to podcast at holistic lactation.com to so anyways, I've got the product, it's got Moringa and it's Moringa leaf powder. 

 

So the part of the plant is really important. leaves and roots and seeds all have different bioactive and chemical components. So it's powdered Moringa leaf, it is milk thistle seed extract, soy milk thistle and blessed thistle often get mixed up but it's milk thistle but the one that's actually more potent for lactation. Plus the soul is you know, one of those sort of nice to have things but generally doesn't make a very large difference in lactation. Soy Milk thistle is the one that does and silymarin is the extract in milk thistle that is responsible for milk production. So rather than loading up the capsule with this milk thistle seed that's crushed and powdered, and most of it you don't need we actually took the extract so it's more potent. 

 

And then it's just minimizing the sort of, you know, fill in the capsule, removing all of the fluff and just including that silymarin extract from milk thistle. So I'm really excited to have that that's pretty unique. And there's a couple of really great studies out there showing that silymarin increases milk production far more than placebo. So that's really, you know, one of those great great studies Moringa by the way, there are so many studies on Moringa. It is across the board, the most effective ingredient for increasing milk supply. And I don't know why more people don't know about it in some ways. It's actually fairly easy to get these days but I would say that's probably only been true and The last maybe five or six years or so, the next ingredient is shot a very root powder shot a very, very is really asparagus root. 

 

That is a great hormone balancer, it increases prolactin levels, which is the hormone responsible for milk production. And then there's alfalfa leaf powder. Alfalfa is like, I mean, it is so nutritious. It is so full of micronutrients and minerals and vitamins that are really essential to not only restoring, you know, whatever you've lost during pregnancy and birth, but so incredibly helpful for lactation. 

 

There's so many little micronutrients that are really important that aren't always available in a multivitamin, you may not be getting enough of in your diet. And alfalfa is like this nutrient powerhouse, this incredible superfood that really boosts all of those things that you need to have more energy, make more milk, sustain milk production, all of that. And then the last one is fennel seed powder. And a lot of people get fennel and fennel seed confused. So phenol does have some safety concerns in large quantities. 

 

Yes, it's a food right. But when you concentrate things, you know it can behave differently. So fennel seed powder is different than phenol. So I want to clarify that and funnel seed is shown to be very effective for increasing milk supply for decreasing digestive distress. So a lot of times moms will take supplements and find that it makes them very gassy or they have some digestive symptoms that are uncomfortable. So phenol is really there to combat that. And it's also just a great hormone balancer, as well. 

 

So all of these things work very synergistically. Moringa, being the most powerful ingredient is there in the highest quantity. So we wanted to make sure primarily Moringa, because you do need a fair amount of Moringa to see a difference in your milk supply as well. So a lot of the other products that I've seen on the market are under dosed. Some of them don't even reveal the amounts of the herbs that are in there. And I'm always shocked by that. Because why not be transparent with your product, especially for someone who's lactating? Like, I just think moms are so vigilant about what they put in their bodies during pregnancy and postpartum especially when they're breastfeeding. That for you to not disclose ingredients just seems really disingenuous. It's very weird to me that they wouldn't. 

 

And I guess the concern is that they think someone's going to copy their product. I've got news for you, yeah, products get copied all of the time. But if your product works, and you have enough brand recognition, and you have an a value that your company brings to the consumer, why are you worried about that you really shouldn't be and also being first to market is is kind of a you know, you have an advantage, so to speak. So anyway, I just would never not be transparent about every single thing that's in my product, that's not cool with me, I would never want to operate that way with my own patients. So I definitely don't want to operate that way with my own customers. 

 

So anyway, if anybody ever has any questions about it, you know, feel free to reach out. But pretty much everything is answered either on our website or on our Amazon listing, I try to be really comprehensive about everything. And then the next one coming out is the lactation flow formula. I'm super excited for that because most moms end up taking, you know, sunflower lecithin or sometimes soy lecithin to clear or prevent clogged ducts. And while that can be effective for a lot of people, it causes a huge amount of Gi discomfort. 

 

I am one of those people that I cannot tolerate lecithin to the point that I cannot even eat chocolate that has less than n. So sometimes people actually think they have a soy allergy, when in fact it's a lecithin allergy. And so if you're buying soy-free products, but you're having something with sunflower lecithin, you still may experience those digestive symptoms. So just an FYI there. But that alone is not enough. We have really good studies and the protocol that just came out two weeks ago from the Academy of breastfeeding medicine, their updated protocol on mastitis confirms this and talks about this, but there are certain probiotic strands that are in studies just as effective as antibiotics and treating mastitis. The other cool thing about probiotics is that they can prevent mastitis as well. 

 

And so while it's a very expensive strain to get, I did make sure to include that in this product as well. As well as a couple of other things that are very well studied in terms of calming that inflammation at the breast and clearing mastitis. So it's one of those things that if you are prone to clogged ducts or mastitis and you want to take it to kind of have a baseline level of prevention, it's great for that and then you can up your dosage and increase it if you're having an acute issue. And you really need something to combat what's going on with clogs or mastitis. So I'll be talking more about that one. But the reason again, why I wanted to create that It was really the same reason I created the advanced lactation formula, which is I just did not see a great product on the market, or I would constantly have to recommend these combinations of things to people. 

 

And so you know, having to buy a probiotic and having to buy, you know, this ingredient and then having to buy this other one, three things, you're already struggling, right, you need an immediate solution, if you've got a club duct or mastitis. And so you know, that one will will again be available on the same marketplaces and whatnot, hopefully, I'll have an opportunity to pitch that to be in stores as well. But I won't have the opportunity this go round. So really just wanting to make high quality products that are not currently available. They're special blends. They're based on the latest available scientific evidence, they're based on results that I've seen with hundreds, if not 1000s, of families clinically. And you know, I just really want to say that to me, I care so much about like truth and people having accurate, honest information. 

 

And it drives me nuts. When I see moms, especially breastfeeding moms misled, and they're led to believe, you know, this thing will be the magic fix. And it isn't, and it's so disheartening, and it often leads to a lot of disruption with breastfeeding, and it's just sad. It's just sad. So I think really my goal with anything I do in my business, whether it's appointments, whether it's our membership, the nurture collective, whether it's these products, whether it's my Instagram, or even this podcast, is to really just say, hey, there's actually some good stuff out there that can help you. And here it is, and I've done the legwork for you. I've it's tried, it's tested, and it's true. So anyway, if this is something you're interested in, I've got links in the show notes. 

 

In fact, you can find a special discount code there in the show notes if you order off our website. So feel free to use that, if that's something you'd like if you're listening outside of the US. Unfortunately, this is not sold outside of the US just yet. It is available on our website. If you live in Canada, as well as the US, I will warn you that Canadian shipping is pretty pricey. But if it's important to you to have a quality product, you can get it in Canada if you order on holistic lactation.com. So many people complain about the shipping prices, and like I get it look, I complain too. But I can't go into debt just to send you a product. And the shipping rates that we have are through our logistics company, that has massively discounted shipping rates. Canada has just made it difficult for people to even get breast pumps, and you know, anything lactation and breastfeeding-related, unfortunately. 

 

And so I feel for you when you live in a geographic area like that. And the only way that I could make it better would be if I somehow had a distribution facility in other countries that I wanted to sell in. But that is quite a massive expense and not something I'm in a position to be able to do. So apologies to anyone who cannot get it just because of where you live. But if you're in the US, it's available. So thank you so much for listening. Stay tuned, we've got some incredible episodes coming up. Next week, I will be reviewing Dr. Rebecca diamond. She is a pediatrician, and she is from a parent like a pediatrician. She has a forthcoming book. She's very active on Instagram. So we'll be releasing her interview very shortly in the next month. And some other great interviews as well. I've got Dr. Martin Rosen coming on. He's an exciting guest, and we'll be diving into a bit more about tongue ties, one of my favorite topics, so make sure you're subscribed. And if you love the show, please please consider leaving us a review. It helps other listeners like you find and listen to these episodes and get more help and support on their breastfeeding journeys.